Securing a job in the National Football League is no easy feat no matter who you are or what your last name is. As a woman, securing a job in the National Football League can seem almost impossible. However there are women currently breaking down the glass ceiling including Phoebe Schecter.

Former Buffalo Bills coach Phoebe Schecter has worked in all aspects of football as a player, coach, and analyst. She worked her way into the NFL, but found her passion was helping develop young athletes.  As the first British woman to coach in the National Football League she is helping grow the game of American football internationally.

We spoke with Phoebe about everything football, finding where you fit, and going after everything you want.

You took a somewhat less conventional route to coaching football. Tell us about your coaching background.

Yeah I really didn’t have one up until about nine years ago. Basically what happened was I got involved in American football as a player first and then from there I thought I couldn’t play forever so I got involved in youth coaching which then grew to what we would consider senior (18+) over in the UK. The level is similar to upper high school or D3 college and from there I basically went out to University of La Verne and did a two week training camp essentially and fell in love with it. That was my first time really being in that environment so that was really what lit the flame for me in terms of what I want to do.

I got involved with the Bill Walsh Diversity Fellowship and ended up with the Buffalo Bills which was unbelievable. Then I went to Bright University as an offensive assistance essentially as a volunteer for the season. I did another two-week internship with Stanford University and then end up back to the Buffalo Bills and last year I was coaching out in Germany as a defensive coordinator so lots of different roles. 

You mentioned you were part of the Bill Walsh Diversity Coaching Fellowship.  What are your thoughts on the National Football League trying to create a more diverse and inclusive workplace?

The NFL is a funny place right? A lot of people who are in it already either grew up with the sport loving it, their parents might have been coaches or still coach in the NFL. I think historically it was always this “boys club”. One because I don’t think women knew there was even an opportunity for them to be involved in this sport, but two because there was nobody looked like us in these roles we just didn’t think it was an option.

What the NFL is doing now essentially is giving people those opportunities. You still have to earn it completely, but at least you get to see what elite sport is like at that level because half the time you don’t even know what you’re working towards. You know there’s this holy grail of the NFL, but what does that look like? How do I get there? By giving you an opportunity to see the end result I think it really helps you steer your journey.

What was your biggest takeaway from the Bill Walsh Diversity Fellowship that you can share with other women as a piece of advice?

The biggest thing is you have to believe in yourself and understand the value that you bring to an organization. Even when I was in Buffalo that didn’t come to me immediately. It took time for me to understand what exactly it is I bring to the team. I think that’s what is important, that difference in perspective. I have a lot of interpersonal skills that I can bring to the table. I’m consistent. I bring great energy. Those things are actually really important when you’re looking at a team or an organization.

Don’t be afraid to go out and try or ask somebody  for help. First off, what’s the worst that can happen? You’re not in any better or worse position than you already are. You never know the opportunities that could come off the back of it.

How difficult was your career journey?

I think for me the biggest thing was learning the speed of the game, learning the speed of practices, and what that environment feels like. Also trying to also upskill myself on terminology. We love to make football difficult in football and there’s a million different terms for the same word. That’s probably what I found the most challenging.

Hard work is hard work and you either have a work ethic or you don’t if I’m being blunt. For me that wasn’t a big issue. Not sleeping or minimal sleep kind of comes with the job territory, but I think more so as a woman or just someone who’s never been in that position before you feel like you have to always prove yourself or do that x percent more just to be like look I deserve to be here. Yes I didn’t play in the NFL, but I do have experience, skill set and qualities of a quality coach.

Women in sports, they’re far and few between. Did you ever experience moments of loneliness or isolation?

Yeah I’d say I really was fortunate in Buffalo. We had people in our whole building in particular. You have ticketing, you have producers for social media and things like that and so I was able to kind of befriend a couple of the girls within different departments . My roommate would drive me to work every morning was an athletic trainer. Yes I felt alone in some ways but actually just having those few moments even if it was just a five minute drive in just for that girl time not being around boys just literally feeling like you could have a girl conversation if you know what I mean. 

I think anything else where I felt isolated a lot of times was probably something that I put on myself because I thought of something and I can definitely overthink things at times and that tends to be a thing that women do. We might be looking into things a bit deeper. It might be something that’s so simple but for me I’d be like is it this because of this. You can kind of get in your own way a lot of times.

Where do you think the NFL is missing the mark as far as inclusion is concerned?

If we’re looking at a bigger scale, we look at two things. You look at complete diversity in terms of head coaches in the NFL and what is the pathway for those coaches, at least getting them an opportunity.

Secondly, I’d say I’m looking forward to the first positional coach, not assistant, not chief of staff. Those are unbelievable, don’t get me wrong, but I think a real statement is I’m hiring this coach for this role. We haven’t quite seen that yet except within the strength and conditioning industry.

Coach Lo, for example, she is assistant defensive line coach so making her a defensive line coach and then she would have an assistant, that would be her room essentially. Kate Sowers is assistant receivers, Callie Brownson assistant receivers or offensive assistance, I’m looking for a real this is your room, this is your position. 

Have you seen women who are currently assistant coaches that you think if given the opportunity can lead a room in the National Football League?

Yeah definitely Coach Lo, Jennifer King with the Commanders, those guys can absolutely lead a room. They are brilliant and they know how to hold themselves and know how to command respect and earn  their respect. I think you just need an opportunity right and a lot of times within bigger organizations nobody wants to be the first to do something.

You’re waiting for one of the teams to take a chance, make someone that positional coach and then I’m sure other teams will follow suit. but no one wants to be that team that puts them in that position and it could potentially fail. Most people would rather just keep things the same as opposed to pushing boundaries.

You are the first British female coach in the NFL.  Do you believe you have to “prove your worth” in other leagues before you can enter professional leagues like the NFL?

For me in particular I was so glad I was able to go through the college system and earn my story. I think that’s a really key part because even being around a bunch of the coaches, they all know each other. It’s the history of the coaching trees and I worked with so and so and that’s a really big part of football.

With my personal journey being in Buffalo, going back with them, and then leaving them on my own accord was slightly different because I was coming back to the UK to work with our NFL Academy which is the first of its kind.  The NFL started their first academy in London so for me at the time I felt like my greatest impact would be with the younger kids who could have their entire lives changed by being able to get a scholarship to the States or ideally make it to the NFL. We’ve got something called the International Player Pathway which I was working with.

For me, I felt like that was where my impact was. Now it’s slightly taken a bit of a change in terms of my career path. The NFL absolutely is always going to be an end goal, but at least I’ve got commentary and analytics that I am able to do in the meantime which keeps me quite involved with the sport as opposed to just being completely done with it. 

There’s no replacement for the NFL or elite sport at all working with a team and working with athletes like that. That’s definitely my number one passion, but when you step away from the NFL that’s all encompassing. You can’t think anything else, that’s all you literally eat, sleep, dream about is your team.

Once I came back to the UK I was like wow I can  do so many different things within American football and I can impact so many people. That’s been really been pulling on my heartstrings for a bit now because I see all these young people that now have opportunities. whether it’s because of working with NFL FLAG or anything like that.

You’ve been a player, a coach, and you’re an analyst. Out of those three roles, which is your favorite and why?

That is so tough because being a player that’s kind of my time. It’s almost like my form of meditation so I’m able to really shut off the rest of the world and just be with my team, focus on what’s happening in front of me, but then being a coach I get to really see genuine change in these young people and watch them grow and develop and even NFL athletes are still young. I’m still older than them all!

It’s really cool to watch the impact that you have on a group of people. It’s so hard to choose between the two things because one is probably from a more selfish perspective  in terms of playing and playing has a shelf life doesn’t it? I’m not going to play forever obviously, but coaching is something that you can use to give back for the rest of your life. It’s so hard, but I would go with coaching. I’ll be less selfish and go with coaching.

What is your best advice for women who want to be in the sports world as a player, coach, or an analyst?

As a player, absolutely go for it. First off the family that you create within a team. It’s a sport that is for every shape, size, and ability. There’s nothing that I’ve seen in terms of team sport that operates like American football and it challenges you and it pushes you and again just the social element of the squad is pretty special.

As a coach, ask people for help. Ask people questions. Ask them if you could come shadow them. Don’t be afraid to be vulnerable and be authentic in terms of what you’re doing. People want to help you and impart their knowledge onto you and help you in your coaching journey because nobody got to where they are without someone’s help.

As an analyst, there’s so much prep time, so much studying that goes alongside of it. Making sure that you are preparing, having more than you ever need for whatever opportunity looks like for you. Again going and asking people can I see how you prepare your notes for this, and see where you look up all this information and stats.

Then when you’re actually speaking to people about it, literally give them you, give them your personality, and let who you are shine. You don’t have to fit into this of what an analyst looks like. You can literally be yourself and people really want to see that.

Who would you say is your biggest mentor?

 The one who has been the best is Sam Rapoport. She is head of diversity and inclusion for the NFL. She’s been so supportive and sometimes giving the best advice is actually guiding and challenging me, not necessarily giving me the answer to something and she’s been fantastic throughout my whole football career from player to coach to where I am now and so supportive. I think everyone should get a mentor. If you don’t have one I highly recommend because just having someone you can speak to and bounce ideas off of, someone you know who has your best interest at heart.

You learn so much more when you have to go through that process. I know myself, in terms of how I do learn I could listen to something all I want, but if I’m not living it or being in the moment with it or focusing on just one thing at a time I’m not going to remember that. When you experience something, you feel it and whether that’s an uncomfortable feeling sometimes that helps you remember it more because you don’t want to feel like that again. I’m going to make sure I’m on top of my game.

Who is your favorite team and any Super Bowl predictions?

It still has to be Buffalo. Did you watch the game on Thursday [referring to Buffalo’s Week 1 victory]? Unreal, this has got to be their year and I’m so excited for them. There’s so much potential for them and I’m really excited to see what they’re about to create this year because they’ve been so close the past couple of years, this has got to be it. I have them playing the Eagles in the Super Bowl.